Feedback on Neuvation wheels (clinchers)

I see that Neuvation is a team sponsor. I’ll be building up a new bike over the winter and am looking hard a the Neuvation wheels. They’ve got great reviews on roadbike review and the price is hard to overlook.

Just wondering what your experiences have been with the wheels. I know they are a sponsor but please be honest. I’m mainly interested in the NON-carbon clincher wheelsets.

So what are you rolling with and what are the good and bad points? thanks, jim

I’m in exactly the same situation, looking for cheap new wheels for the winter and strongly considering the neuvations. If I could add, would you guys recommend anything else at roughly the same price ?

Mine have served their job fine, especially for the price so far. They survived around 900 km of Russian rural roads too which is no mean feat.

I think there are some issues with long term fatigue strength of the rims and spoke failures. That goes for any low spoke count wheel though.

Under 200$ for a wheelset is no mean feat and wheels are somewhat inherently consumables anyway.

What positively drives me nuts is that John (the Neuvation John) claims that lower pressure reduces rolling resistance, which is of course the opposite of what happens in reality. Doubling the pressure from 50-60 to 120-140 very roughly halves your rolling resistance for a given tire system for bikes.

I have never rode on Neuvation, but I have heard that they are Really good wheels and the price is good.

However, If You are looking for cheap wheels that are bomb proof, I’d build a pair of Open Pros. Stiff, Not had to true them all summer and I ride a lot. Only set back is they are 30/32. I think, which doesn’t make them the best Light Racing Wheels.

I have 2 pairs of Neuvation wheels-
R28 SL3 Clinchers with Ceramic Bearing Upgrade (bought spring 2008) and C50 Tubulars (bought fall 2009)

The SL3 had a slight oversized rim which was just enough to make it damn near impossible to change a tire without breaking a few tire levers. It is my understanding this problem was resolved in more recent editions.

No problems with the C50s thus far, I was looking for an aerodynamic tubular wheel for racing and it fits the bill for possibly the least expensive set-up you could manage (save riding for a PRO team)

I would recommend Neuvation for an everyday wheel, as you are saying. I would also recommend getting an Ultegra/Open Pro setup. You can get it for about 250USD from bicycle wheel warehouse or any shop in town would be happy to build you a pair.

thanks for the comments so far- Jason, what wheels were you using?

also Jocelyn, here is another source I ran across. Pretty good reviews on roadbike review although not as many as the neuvatron. http://www.williamscycling.com/

OPEN PRO’S.

I’m riding on OPEN PRO’S w/dura-race and dt spokes from 2000. Although slightly more pricey new, i’m sure both my father and I have put in enough kilometers to make every cent worth it.

I have a set of neuvations and open pros. For the price the neuvation are really great; light and pretty solid. I personally break a lot of wheels and have probably broken 4 spokes on neuvation, pulled a spoke through abother, and had some strange clicking sound on another. That being said, however, I bought my wheels 3 years ago and every time there is a non-crash related problem I have emailed neuvation and they have sent me a brand new wheel, I just had to pay shipping one way. Also, if you do crash and destroy the wheel you can mail in the hub and they’ll rebuild it for $50.

To Summarize: If you’re looking for your first set of nice, light wheels to train race with and don’t want to be spending $250 + (open pros)I would get these.

Also, as a reference for the weight weenies out there: Neuvation R28 1600 g. Open Pro with ultegra 1900 g.

Yeah it was my understanding that although they are unbreakable, the open pros are really heavy. And I already have a set of bomb-proof wheels.
Thanks for the feedback guys.

I’m riding the Williams Wheels and at 220 pounds they don’t flex at all even when sprinting or hammering up hill. The Neuvation wheels required I loosen the front brakes so that they wouldn’t rub if I took a corner or stood up.

Wow this is pretty neat. I’m thinking of possible getting a wheel set for next season as I’m still riding on the wheels that came with my bike. So the neuvation wheels would be regarded as the best deal then. No idea what building up a wheel is or anything like that was wondering what that was all about. Also what the rim size has to do with anything, those Zipp wheels look pretty good though way above my price range.

Rim size: in general, “small” rims are lighter and (sometimes) less stiff. The deep rims are usually very stiff and they are very aerodynamic, but are heavier. Anything with Zipp written on it is very expensive and generally only worth having on your bike if you are about to race it or are a dentist.

Also: Why stiffness matters: work = force times distance. If you apply force to a part on your bike and it deflects, the work you are doing on that part is not helping you go faster.

Why weight matters: same reason. If you have to make your bike go up a vertical distance against the force of gravity, the less it weighs the less force gravity puts on it, the less work it takes to go up the hill. Example: Houde, approx. 200m, takes about 2000J of work to get 1 kg from the bottom to the top, only considering gravity. In cycling terms say a rider a steady output of 200W, that’s ten seconds. (I chose 200W because I felt like dividing by 10, not because it’s reasonable). A discussion of pro rider power outputs: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=3748

Why neither of these things really matter if you’re just starting: It’s way cheaper to improve the engine (you) than the bike.

What Williams wheels do you have adam ?
Oh yeah about carbon wheels: are carbon wheels really worth it ? Do they make that big of a difference ? (ie: worth the 300+ additional dollars to go for cheap carbon)
Sorry for the thread hijack…

Josef, that bike has campy sciroccos, decent wheels but they are quite heavy - only bought them because they were one of the cheapest ways to get a campy freehub body wheel at the time without having to swap bodies and cassettes every time between bikes. Sales are the best…

For the price, for a light wheel I don’t think you can really beat the neuvations.

Outfits like Neuvation and Williams are very similar in philosophy and product though. They build up kits from OEM manufacturers in Asia, mostly Taiwan. I think Williams uses Kung Teng hubs and Pillar spokes (both Taiwanese OEMs). No clue who provides their rims but there are usual suspects.

This isn’t to knock these guys, just to point out that they don’t do any real design or manufacture all they do is provide an assembled product with parts they pick from manufacturers. These outfits are great in that they provide similar product as the big brands at a price that is more realistic (read, cycling is retardedly overpriced)

great discussion… if you go to the williams site- the owner basically says this. He does try to allude that his wheels are made by the same people that makes other (nicer?) wheels. He is just cutting out one or two middlemen, saving $$$. He did say he has someone on site checking every wheel that comes out???

The other factor that I have experienced is the aerodynamic properties of the wheels. my current bike has a set of shimano aero wheels and once you get them up to speed they are very fast (noticable). They might not be the lightest and might not accelerate as quickly (also a function of weight) but once they are cruising speed they do just that.

I definitely won’t go open pro as I have the $$ to spend and at 155lbs, don’t need the bombproof wheelset. Still not sure if either williams or neuvation has the edge, in my mind.

jim

All manufacturing based industries are ridiculously inbred (cars, bikes, aerospace etc). The cycling industry is especially bad for that. Taiwan outputs a huge majority of all cycling related products and a very large portion of the line of any cycling brand is made by an OEM who services multiple big brands simultaneously. Mainland China is getting in on the action too.

Shimano for instance does not manufacture chains, it slaps their brand on KMC stuff made to their spec. KMC is a big Hong Kong based company that does all sorts of timing and chained transmission products. Manufacturing supply chains in general are pretty insane and bikes don’t even have that many parts.

In many ways a number of the big brands are merely the face of a design team specc’ing to an OEM in Asia. You need the corporate presence and advertising to profit on the costly IP and manu-base that was developed but the corporate entity quickly evolves into a mighty beast of it’s own. I’d love to know what portion of operating budget say Specialized actually spends on the engineering aspect of it’s products.

Anyway, getting back to guys like Williams and Neugent, they can take advantage of the IP and industrial base someone else basically paid for and they don’t have a massive corporate overhead and byzantine distribution system to drive up the costs so they can deliver a decent product cheap. And after all that I’m still not sure that gives you a real picture of true cost since we don’t know their mark-up either.

Thats a lot of info. I get the aero and weight thing now. Im riding Shimano R500s now, pretty much training wheels. I was just thinking about upgrading them in the next year or so. Question about the wheels though: Is it better to have aluminum or carbon rims? and is it better to have clinchers or tubular rims?

racing: carbon tubular
training: alloy clincher

a few more years, josef. in the mean time work on dropping your bars.

cool

Nick, that avatar is ridiculously inappropriate…I love it.